Elitist Jerks Weekly Recap 3/30/12

Every Friday Tabana brings you the latest discussions straight from the Elitist Jerks forums with a recap of what was discussed and links to the full posts so you can stay on top of the latest in hunter theorycrafting.

Weapon Swapping Mid-fight? 3/22/12

In the Simple Questions/Simple Answers thread, Fincher asked, “Is it worth Swapping Madness Normal weapons with 410 HC weapons back and forth mid-fight?”

The DS normal weapons of Madness ilvl403 are better DPS wise than the 410 weapons from heroic pre-Madness bosses, the reason being their procs’ chances of a bonus shot/agility boost. However, while there are no procs, the heroic weapons are better because their base damage and base agility attribute is higher, and they give you rating, crit or whatever, so ideally it should be best to wait for a Madness weapon proc(s) and equip the HC 410 Weapon(s) afterward, and then equip the Madness normal weapons again after their internal cooldown refreshes. However, you lose one GCD whenever you swap a weapon so is it still improving the DPS?

 Hamsda replied, “I’m not 100% certain with the staff but Vishanka does not have a ICD if I remember correctly. Or at least it is very short because I see it proc quite often on single or multi target with my hunter alt. Together with the gcd and reset auto shot timer you’d invoke by swapping each time I believe it will not be worth it.”

The staff may have an internal CD but the time between procs is not too long either and I don’t think you can unequip Kiril one the proc went off because it should fade. Weapon swapping in general has probably been no benefit to any class since Blizzard introduced the gcd after swapping weapons.

Lilbitters replied, “No, Kiril (and any other item able to be equipped) invokes the ICD when the item is equipped.”

Kiril has a 55 second ICD. You can start combat with it and gain the buff, then 20 seconds later exchange it for Heroic Spire (which in one of the cases, guarantees your hit rating will be either under or over cap, thus wasting stats). At that point you could DPS with Heroic Spire for 35 more seconds before Kiril’s ICD would be finished in your inventory. However, if you attempt to equip Kiril again, it will immediately initiate the 55 second internal cooldown, making it unable to proc the stacking agility bonus. This would essentially double the duration of Kiril’s ICD (from 55 to 110 seconds) at the gain of using the stats of Heroic Spire for 35 seconds, which surely would be a DPS loss.

Secondly, Vishanka has a 15 second ICD on the Speaking of Rage proc which I personally tested while configuring an addon. Attempting to weapon-swap will again initiate the ICD when you reequip the bow, again making the proc ICD double.

Cmwilli replied, “Using this Profile, FD shows the following after accounting for any necessary reforging to cap hit.”

410 Horn 410 Spire
45025.65 DPS +/-0

403 Vishanka 410 Spire
44889.67 DPS -135.98

410 Horn 403 Kiril
44836.71 DPS -188.94

403 Vishanka 403 Kiril
44683.01 DPS -342.64

Simulation Craft shows the following after accounting for any necessary reforging to cap hit:

410 Horn 410 Spire
44749.5 DPS -84.0

403 Vishanka 410 Spire
44833.5 DPS +/-0

410 Horn 403 Kiril
44568.4 DPS -265.1

403 Vishanka 403 Kiril
44640.1 DPS -193.4

I do not know what to do when two reputable sources disagree. What is the next step in analysis? I could run several LFR’s to get real data, but it would take way too much time to get a reliable number of data points.

I am inclined to believe SimC over FD because SimC varies fight length mitigating issues with over valuing haste and shot shifting. However I don’t know what, if any, advantages FD has over SimC so I’m not sure how much weight to assign its numbers.

Daimonie replied, “The disagreement is in Horn vs Vishanka, when using Kiril, Fury of Beasts.”

In FemaleDwarf, proc effects are averaged out, and it shows Horn (without proc) > Vishanka (With proc).
In Simulation Crafct, proc effects are simulated, and it shows Vishanka (With a proc) > Horn (Without a proc).

The reason for this disagreement seems to be that Vishanka and Kiril,together, give a better profile at the higher end when simulated. Assuming that, on average, both two proc-effects are simulated such that they give the same average as FemaleDwarf, Simcraft gives the dual-proc system a higher end because of the dps gain when they go together, instead of loose. This shifts the median value to a bit higher for the dual-proc system, with a certain change in variance due to the fact that the two events don’t coincide.

Calling X Vishanka, Y Kiril, what we have is E (X+Y) = Expected (X+Y) = E(X) + E(Y) in femaledwarf – but it would be E(X+Y) = E(X)+E(Y)+correlation(X,Y). [ I'm not sure about the last term there, but it is a correlation effect, i believe]

This explanation seems plausible, even though I miss the theory to explain it in terms of statistics.

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Level 75 Talents 3/29/12

In the Mists of Pandaria thread, zakaria wrote, “Murder of Crows – Summons crows to attack over 30 seconds, 1 min CD, reset if target under 20%”

Call Beast – Summons a beast to fight for you, does damage and returns focus over 12 seconds, 30 sec CD
Lynx Rush – Your pet rapidly charges from target to target, attacking 9 times over 4 sec, dealing its normal attack damage to each target. 2 min CD

Level 75 talents became now BM centric. Lynx rush I guess is like same mechanic of Lynx rush for the final boss in ZA which make him pounce from target to target but without the bleed and stun effect.

I found a video for tier 75 talents MoP Beta Hunter T5 Talents – YouTube

Ristoril replied, “Call Best currently does not have a cooldown.”

From the quick bit of testing I did, I found with Call Beast you can just macro it with Cobra Shot and spam it. You end up with multiple beasts attacking a target for the same regular melee swing damage as a non BM pet (it stays at that kind of damage even if you are BM spec’ed and they are not effected by Beastial Wrath). For me this was about 2.5k to 3k damage non crit and 5k+ on crits.

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Problems with Kael’thas 3/23/12

In the Soloing Old Instances for Fun and Profit thread, Alcor wrote, “I’m trying Kael’Thas and I have some problems during the phase 2. [...] Have you some advice ?

Lawlhunter replied, “Kripparrian made a video on this a while back, contains all the info you need to solo it: How To Solo Kael’thas as a Hunter – YouTube

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Marrowgar (25) Soloed 3/27/12

In the Soloing Old Instances for Fun and Profit thread, Caribald wrote, “Finally released Marrowgar 25 video. [...] World first solo (hunter): Caribald vs Lord Marrowgar (25 man) – YouTube [...]

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A full index of all Elitist Jerks posts recapped at the Wow Hunter’s Hall is maintained in the Index of Elitist Jerks Hunter Forum Posts.

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