Elitist Jerks Weekly Recap 10/7/11

Every Friday Tabana brings you the latest discussions straight from the Elitist Jerks forums with a recap of what was discussed and links to the full posts so you can stay on top of the latest in hunter theorycrafting.


Queuing Instant Shots?

In the Simple Questions/Simple Answers thread, LilM8 said “In my understanding the MM guide, femaledwarf.com and SimC say that instant shots cannot be queued and so latency always affects them, which means that if I have 100ms latency, my instants will need 1.1s “cast time” (GCD+lag) instead of 1s. My question is: is this still the case?”

I tried to test this myself: (Logs)

Test 1:
-0ms latency tolerance (so my spell queue is disabled)
-5 minutes of spamming my Hunter’s Mark-button.

Test 1:
-0ms latency tolerance (so my spell queue is disabled)
-5 minutes of spamming my Hunter’s Mark-button.

When looking through the log [...] I found:
entries: 261
time between them: 302.375s
This means 1.159s per cast, which correlates nicely with my latency of about 150ms.

Test 2:
-400ms latency tolerance (the spell queue should be working now)

Looking through the log, I found:
entries: 298
time between them: 300.215s
This means 1.007s per cast.

Since my latency is not only 7 ms, I would assume that the spell queue does also work with instant shots now. I repeated each 5-minute-test three times, and the results were quite similar. However, there are some things I’m not sure about. For example, the logs are too big to manually calculate the time between each cast, so I could see if there have been some big lags in between. What do you think?

Hirjux replied, “I’ve run several tests myself for testing this because a guildmember said spellqueue would also effect instants for his warrior. So I did this test with lag tolerance set to 400ms; with a few torrents I got my world latency to ~250ms. ”

Hirjux presented test results and said, “As you can see the time between two AS – which should be ideally 1 sec – varies in both directions; somtimes cast time in the log is >1 sec and sometimes <1 sec. Anyone got any good interpretation of why this happens and if spellqueue really does/not affect instant casts?”

Shadowwaltz said:

That’s a bad way to test it because you’re assuming that the combat log is 100% exact (it’s obviously not). Instead, set a 10s timer and cast 10 arcane shots in a row, starting the timer at the same time you press arcane shot. Your 10th arcane shot should be cast @ 9s and the GCD from that last arcane shot will end at 10s. You’re gonna have to spec BM to do that many arcane shots though.

Whitefyst replied that it would be possible to test as MM under the right conditions:

During a glyphed RF with ISS up and the raid haste buff, you can perform 10 consecutive AS if you start with a full focus bar and have a 33.33% haste from gear and Pathing and other sources. With 3/3 Pathing the requirement is 29.45% haste or 3772 haste rating. This can be achieved in a several ways, including:

  • Have bloodlust at the same time as RF
  • Wait until both haste trinkets proc before starting RF and the ASs. With just the 378 haste trinkets, you only need 616 haste rating on gear.

EDIT: I just want to point out that the fact that you cannot have ISS up throughout this whole scenario does not matter since [...] that haste does not affect AS cast time and does not affect base focus regen at all. [...]

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Tier 12 Four-Piece Bug Fixed

In the Marksmanship thread, Kerchoff noted, “It looks like the t12 4pc bug may have been fixed. I was doing testing on a target dummy and AS, CS, and AI were all consuming the proc upon casting instead of when reaching the target.”

Vulkrin88 added, “Yeah I believe it was a couple days ago, noticed the same. It’s a good thing. Sometimes it would be great. Other times it would screw up my shots if done wrong.”

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Focus-saving Procs: Rhythm and DPS

In the Marksmanship thread, Whitefyst discussed adjustments to prevent focus-capping with focus-saving procs and the impacts of doing so on shot rhythm.

For an Arcane Shot focus dump, “focus savings procs are only useful up to the point where it allows you to perform the minimum 4 SSs per CS cycle. After that, you are generally best off to ignore the fact that you may be over-capping on some cycles and not doing anything special beyond changing shot order (but maintaining same shot numbers per cycle).”

For an Aimed Shot focus dump, cast Chimera Shot or Aimed Shot as soon as you have sufficient focus:

The chance to overcap focus can be reduced and even eliminated if you are proactive and perform an AI focus dump cycle that casts CS or AI as soon as you have enough focus to do so (around the limitation of maintaining ISS) or have a BA [Burning Adrenaline] proc (as long as it doesn’t interrupt an SS pair). This provides a good portion of your focus bar to absorb focus gains from base focus regen without overcapping while you are utilizing procs. You just keep casting focus costing shots until you do not have enough focus to do so or utilize your BA proc even if you are below 50 focus and as long as you are not in the middle of an SS pair for ISS. If you follow this method, you should almost never cap focus with an AI focus dump cycle and do not have to worry about doing anything special in reaction to procs.

A hybrid cushion method for the Arcane Shot focus dump:

For maximum DPS, you want to be able to perform X ASs per cycle. If you are trying the AI method, it is not effective on cycles with little or no procs that are focus negative since you will not have enough focus that cycle to cast the maximum number of ASs and have to cast extra SSs instead, resulting in a loss of DPS. On the other hand, you have cycles that can overcap by 35 focus or more. Thus, you could employ a hybrid version of the AI method which instead of burning focus as soon as you have it tries to maintain cushions at the top and bottom of the focus bar to accommodate the various cycle options for consuming focus depending on procs. Theoretically, you can try to dump focus when your focus bar is roughly between 45 and 65 focus to provide cushions either way. However, in practice with the randomness of the proc, it will be difficult to maintain that range.

Zakaluka15 replied, “I have been working on exactly the same question for a couple weeks. My answer thus far has been to prevent over-capping focus with one of two methods.”

The first method is just by doing what we might normally do during term phase. Delay a SS pair until the middle of one of my shot sequences, this gives a lot of extra time for ArS spam. I use CS glyph with 1.4 sec ss, so the focus-capping problem is fairly pronounced.
CS SS SS Ar Ar SS SS <– first cycle, but suppose here I have high focus and a proc for next CS. 8.6 sec, with latency I’m waiting on CS just barely. Not exactly optimal but it sims out pretty well and I post reasonable numbers.
CS Ar Ar SS SS SS Ar Ar <– second cycle, the 1.4sec SS means this rotation eats 9.2 seconds, pretty optimal actually. And ISS never falls off.

Second option is a little wierd. Start with the idea that using up my focus is always better than letting it cap. Sometimes if it’s not immediately clear how to fold into option 1 above, I’ll just dump focus with an extra kill command. It’s hard to tell how much ‘worse’ kill command is as a focus dump than ArS, because there’s a list of things that come into play:

  • Kill Command has significantly higher DPET [damage per execute time] than ArS, but
  • ArS has significantly higher DPF [damage per focus] than KC
  • BUT- it might be okay to trade DPF for DPET.  [...]

Now I look at total DPET of the entire fill chain on average (SS-Ar vs SS-KC)
KC + 2.31 SS = 45651 dmg, 4.19 sec, 10901 DPET
ArS + 1.63 SS = 32648 dmg, 3.25 sec, 10047 DPET
This would suggest that in some cases KC can actually be a better focus dump than ArS. Considerations:

  • KC scales faster with AP, ArS scales faster with weapon damage.
  • However, it seems that overall KC out-scales ArS. [...]
  • The KC dump benefits more from haste, because of more time spent on SS. It also benefits less from crit, since KC already has a very high crit rate. [...]

Whitefyst replied that Zakaluka15 had overlooked the additional benefits of Arcane Shot over Kill Command beyond direct damage :

KC has no additional benefits that affect DPS. While AS has:

  • Sic’em procs for more pet focus and increased WH uptime for increased pet DPS
  • If talented for Marked for Death, marks the target if a new target and CS on CD.
  •  T13 4P proccing off AS

The first of these is the one that applies most consistently and which helps to close the gap between KC and AS DPET.

The final item pretty much precludes any thought of a full KC focus dump rotation once you get the T13 4P. [...]

Zakaluka15 replied “I mostly just explored whether KC is an okay focus dump.”

Now the application would be like this:

  • I’m severely focus positive if I’m dumping with only ArS.
  • Every couple rotations I’ll wind up near focus cap if I’m doing SS in pairs, one before CS one after.

That is, I get an extra KC once maybe every 3 rotations. My behavior isn’t actually to primarily use KC, but to even out the focus surplus. If this is good, I get to
CS SS SS Ar Ar SS SS <—- most times
CS SS SS KC Ar SS SS <—- when I get a mistimed T12 4pc proc, or I’m in danger of focus capping
CS SS SS AI KC SS SS <—- when I get an MMM proc and there’s no other (easy) way for me to dump focus.

[...] Playing in FD this looks slightly behind, playing in simc it looks like it could actually be slightly ahead at a high enough gear level. Either way the difference seems pretty miniscule. The difference though is it keeps a pretty static rotation, there’s less thinking involved, fewer possible scenarios. Otherwise I’ve got to find places to cram in long chains of ArS. And, during term I have enough focus to KC almost every rotation – it presents a tidy way to dump all that extra focus.

Rivkah added, “Just one other thing to note in the KC as focus dump discussion- KC will not proc wild quiver, so depending on your mastery level that’s also a factor in how it compares to arcane shot.”

Whitefyst replied, “The rotation that you list with seldom KCs is a fine option. I just do not think that it increases your DPS by much, but an increase is an increase.”

Zakaluka15 replied, “Yes! It’s really not a gain much at all. All it does it make chimera glyph work at odd haste values, which as a separate measure is a significant dps gain. But as you pointed out chimera glyph isn’t always important.”

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Upcoming Updates to the MM Guide will Address High Haste Aimed Shot Case

In the Marksmanship thread, Whitefyst announced that the MM Guide will be updated to address the high haste Aimed Shot case:

I believe I am a little overdue in addressing the high haste AI case clearly and directly, although myself and others have alluded to this in many posts in a couple threads. [...] I will be making updates to the guide over the next week or so to do address it.

The updates will not be added all at one time but will be done piecemeal so please keep that in mind and refrain from making comments that I missed someplace until after the updates are done. The highest priority update will be to the recommendations section at the top of the guide. Then I will start making changes in the guide to more fully cover items as I deem pertinent. Note though that the base guide information will still be for the case without factoring in tier bonuses with special sections for how the tier bonuses affect the base rotation philosophy. I will make a good attempt at updating the change history section with information on where I made changes.

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Bestial Wrath prioritized, Heroism at 50%, Haste to Crit for Beast Mastery

In the Best Possible DPS thread, Stricken7 wrote:

Here is a BM setup at 37373.32.
Checked Don’t overlap BW and RF, and moved BW to the top of the priority.
Changed the time of Hero/BL to 50%.
Reforged a bit out of Haste and into Crit and got an increase there as well.

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Slabhide in Stonecore: A Faster Drake Mount Run

In the Soloing Old Instances for Fun and Profit thread, Sepultura posted a faster method for getting to Slabhide in Stonecore:

I found a way to speed up the drake run on Stonecore that I would like to share. Is all very easy to do, all we need is being in combat with all mobs in the gnome path, dps him till he emotes whatever he emotes and reset the fight. Stonecore fast drake hunt solo – YouTube

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Beasts of Northrend

In the Soloing Old Instances for Fun and Profit thread, Durendil announced soloing the Beasts of Northrend for a world first solo kill:

The Beasts of Northrend require near-perfect execution, with a non-negligeable enrage timer, paralytic sprays and… Kobolds!

PHASE 1: Gormok the pet-reaver. You will want 4 tenacity pets with taunt and last stand. Try to use only 3 on Gormok. Pop rapid fire from the start, and stay out of the fires. Stack focus after about 20 seconds, and use a macro to dps the Snobold that will jump on you while you can. Then pop your 2nd rapid fire, and dps as best as you can. Start using CDs at 5-6 stacks, cower then shell/carapace, and ultimately last stand. Then… the pet switch! [...]

Run away from the boss, dismiss pet, call other pet, send him to attack. Watch his health. As soon as it reaches it’s maximum, taunt. Pop deterrence if needed, you might get impaled, but if you have enough health it will help your pet survive longer. Feign death, your pet will have your original aggro, so dps hard. The goal is to put Gormok at 50%, 20% then 0%. Once Gormok is down, switch pet if needed, send him on your Snobold if not.

PHASE 2: The bad and the less bad Jormungar.[...] In the beginning, send your pet on Dreadscale, misdirect immediately Acidmaw, then send your pet on Acidmaw. [...] Now clear the 3 kobolds, and clear them quick, as to stop the fire patches from spawning. Then dps Dreadscale. When he’s moving, simply dps as much as you can. [...]

Rooted Acidmaw: two paralytic sprays, one after 10 seconds and another 20 seconds later. If cast on your pet, no effect. If cast on you… either taunt Dreadscale, deterrence, then catch the DoT. If deterrence is on CD, better feign death for 25 seconds and get up again after the second acid spray.

Once Acidmaw is dead, dps Dreadscale down. It’s a good idea, when he’s stationary, to put your pet on the kobold and kill command him to another life while mass misdirecting. Then finish dreadscale off.

PHASE 3: Icehowl, final sprint! [...] Dps him, heal your pet, get out of the way of his charges, then blow your rapid fires after he gets the +100% damage taken. [...]

See our WHH recap with video.

Read full post with Durendil’s detailed strategy.

A full index of all Elitist Jerks posts recapped at the Wow Hunter’s Hall is maintained in the Index of Elitist Jerks Hunter Forum Posts.

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