Every Friday Tabana brings you the latest discussions straight from the Elitist Jerks forums with a recap of what was discussed and links to the full posts so you can stay on top of the latest in hunter theorycrafting.
- Beast Mastery
- BM: Shot Cycles
- BM Shot Priorities 12/2/11
- Kill Command vs. Kill Shot 12/4/11
- BM Stats
- Secondary Stat Values 12/5/11
- BM: Updates to the Guide
- Marksmanship
- MM: Gear
- MM: Tier 13 Gear
- Tier 13 Four-piece Bonus 12/6/11
- Survival
- SV: Talents
- Rivkah’s (Zeherah’s) Hunter DPS Analyzer at FemaleDwarf
- FD: Updates
- FD Updates: Patch 4.3
- Vial of Shadows Proc, Part II 12/3/11
- SimulationCraft for Hunters
- SimC: Updates and Suggested Improvements
- Resistance is Futile 12/2/11
- Soloing Old Instances for Fun and Profit
- Classic World of Warcraft
- Twin Emperors Bug/Exploit Fixed 12/8/11
In the Beast Mastery thread, Nooska wrote, “Seeing as Arcane Shot [AS] scales off of 4.83% of our RAP [ranged attack power] and Cobra Shot [CoS] only scales off of 1.7% RAP, we want to dump any extra GCD’s [global cooldown] into Arcane Shot, not Cobra. [...] The 2t13 bonus is great, but doesn’t require any new thinking, as we still want to dump any excess focus into AS – we really only need 1 CoS every ~15-21 seconds to keep up Serpent Sting – apart from that it is only to generate focus when we don’t have enough for AS and KC [is] on CD.
Kill Command vs. Kill Shot 12/4/11
In the Beast Mastery thread, Stricken7 wrote, “The current priority has Kill Shot below Kill Command, as in if both are available use Kill Command first. Is this your intention? Kill Shot is the higher damage option based on all my numbers and I’m wondering if I’ve been incorrectly delaying KC when KS is available.”
Nooska replied, “Your question has led me to do a number of different calculations on FemaleDwarf. While logically we should be able to define either KC or KS as the priority choice between the 2, no matter how I move them about (while maintaining the rest of the relative priority) I see 0 change in dps between KC>KS and KS>KC – even when switching around BW so it’s in between KS and KC (KS>BW>KC), so simulations show that it doesn’t matter.”
Now for the practical and logical approach; Using the results from a t13 normal equipped raider (all 5 tier pieces), Femaledwarf reports that I have 35,284 effective RAP on my target. KC damage is (849 + 51.6%RAP) * Mastery. KS is 150% weapondamage + 543 + 45%RAP so the differences between the 2 is (excluding mastery) 303 + 6.6%RAP in favor of KC versus 150% weapondamage. For a weapon like [Vishanka, Jaws of the Earth] the weapon damage is 2629.76 + RAP/14*2.8 or 20%RAP. It then becomes 303 + 6.6%RAP versus 2629.76 + 20%RAP, or in other words Kill shot is the clear winner here.
Now the thing that is most likely playing in to even it out so completely is the differing cooldowns, and what you replace. If you prioritize KC>KS then KS is still fired as often as possible (more or less) by pushing out Arcane Shots (though in reality it pushes out Cobra Shots, which are even lower on the damage chain, since we don’t need to use CoS to gain focus we haven’t used), while if we prioritize KS>KC then we push KC by 2 seconds, or a third of the CD, thus costing us 1 full KC every 3rd time we do so, or in sim terms, costing us a third of a KC. That 1/3*KC is more or less exactly the gain of KS>KC – which is the reasoning I used originally to prioritise KC>KS.
In summation to that, you can do it either way, it’s more or less a wash theoretically speaking, though I will retain the KC>KS priority as that will, in practice, more likely allow more of both and pushes CoS instead of KC, allowing more instants.
In the Beast Mastery thread, Nooska wrote, “I have looked at the relative values of secondary stats, and can confirm that, regardless of the projected values (I’m looking at haste specifically) the priority is Hit (to cap) >> Crit > Mastery >> Haste. Even while the tool is valuing haste higher than crit and mastery, and mastery at the bottom, reforging haste to mastery on a single item at a time consistently provides a dps increase.
This, of course, goes very nicely with the priority, as we are pushing the only casttime shot we use (CoS) to the very bottom at all times, and with 2t13, we will use it even less, thus gaining almost no value from haste apart from the autoshot increase.
Molson replied, “Confirming that I’m seeing the same results with my character, but only after I switch out legs to gain 2t13 (although the 2t13 effect is not listed under “Gear Bonuses”). Although Haste is valued over Mastery by almost a 3:1 ratio, reforging from Haste to Mastery consistently provides a DPS increase according to the tool. As you noted, this makes sense given that our only cast time shot is CoS, and with 2t13, it will see a large reduction in casts.”
I’m curious then, as to why I see a large DPS loss with the tool when switching from 3/3 Pathing to 1/3 Pathing + 2/2 Imp Serpent Sting, with the Serpent Sting glyph replacing [Glyph of] Kill Shot. I found this setup through the Paragon website, and with the value of haste plummeting for BM with 2t13, it would seem like a logical conclusion that we could move the points in Pathing elsewhere for a DPS gain. Any ideas why this does not seem to be the case?
Adaliaa replied, “While I haven’t mathed it out, the obvious answer to me is that while haste is devalued with T13, Serpent Sting still is a relatively low portion of our damage.”
Since in an ideal situation you only use SrS once in a fight, all you’re getting from those two talent points is 10% more crit on your SrS. The 2% haste, on the other hand, does still affect what Cobras you’re casting, your auto-shots, and your pet’s auto attacks, all of which add up to more of a benefit. In a non-ideal circumstance, where there are adds with high health that you’d be using SrS on, or lots of target switching that lends itself to SrS dropping off the boss, it might be different, but that’s not what FD models.
Namarus noted, “Just a quick correction there. I don’t believe that haste affects your pet’s auto attacks. I tested that last night by looking at my pet swing speed, 1.6 and then removed all of my gear. The swing speed was still 1.6.”
Nooska replied, “While it may seem obvious to drop ISrS for full 3/3 pathing, I am looking at a 0.2% dps difference in favor of doing that in a perfect Patchwerk fight (ilvl 397/403 geared). In reality, you just have to add a delay of 0.25 seconds to 1 CoS over a 5 minute fight (with 8 CoS) to have lost that.”
With mean choice reaction* time being somewhere in the region of 0.3 – 0.5 seconds, the time of gain is outside human control.
Contrast this with a definite gain with a ~15 second response time to do one action at any time during that, and I dare say that both in theory and in practise, ISrS will give you a noticable gain over the 2% haste from Pathing.* Choice Reaction Time, as indicated by the Jensen Box, the time to recognize and react to a simple stimuli – a light diode indicating which button to push. By all counts some raid situations could be equal to this simple test, but most will likely fall into a more complex, and therefore harder and more timeconsuming, choice and reaction. The specific times are taken from I. J. Deary, G. Der and G. Ford (2001). “Reaction times and intelligence differences: A population-based cohort study“
Pichuca replied, “Haste does affect pet swing speed. Try to reforge a piece to or out of haste while having the pet panel open and you will notice. Also if you take pieces out and give it a few secs the stats will reflect on the pet panel eventually.”
On other thing, Is anyone giving any credit to Kiroptyric Sigil – Item – World of Warcraft It simulates as the best trinket apart from the 3 versions of Vial of Shadows on any spec and it could be great to macro to BW, delaying BW a bit every time while it doesn´t mean the loss of a BW during a fight
Rivkah replied, “Haste definitely does affect pet swing speed, however keep in mind the pathing talent is ranged haste only and does not affect pet attack speed.”
Beast Mastery Guide Updated for Patch 4.3 12/3/11
In the Beast Mastery thread, Nooska announced, “The [Beast Mastery] guide is now updated for 4.3″
NextOne replied, “4.3 Updates: The Focus Fire description has a mistake, the duration is now 20s up from 15s.”
Nooska replied, “Thank you, I missed that, it is now updated.”
Sarahjane replied, “Animal Handler now increases AP by 30%, up from 25%. Your numbers from the OwN description reflect the buff, so I’m guessing this one just slipped through!”
Nooska replied, “Yes indeed, thank you for bringing it to my attention.”
Tier 13 Four-piece Bonus 12/6/11
In the Marksmanship thread, Nannos quoted a portion of the Marksmanship guide:
The T13 4-set bonus provides a 30% haste proc on AS casts for 15s. This is basically a mini-Bloodlust and is also very powerful since that much haste will result in additional AIs. The current understanding of the proc is that each AS has a 40% chance to proc it and that the proc has an ICD. Using a binomial estimation, a 40% proc rate means that on average a proc should occur after 2 ASs (64% chance) and that we should almost be guaranteed a proc after 5 ASs (92% chance). Whether an ICD exists and its duration is still to be determined. Current FS implementation assumes a 45s ICD.
Nannos wrote, “I was already able to complete the T 13 4-piece bonus on live servers and started testing its mechanics on target dummies. As a result so far, I can mostly confirm your desciption above, including the ICD mechanics and proc chance at roughly 40-50 % (between 1-5 AS needed to trigger the proc once the ICD has expired). Though, the ICD duration seems to be substantially longer than expected, adding up to approximately 110s.”
Lock and Load Internal Cooldown Part II 12/3/11
In the Survival thread, Naeis wrote, “It appears the reduced ICD of LnL made it to live (looks like 10-12 seconds as opposed to the old 22 sec icd).”
This change [plus] the buff to LnL proc chance (12% -> 20%) allows for fairly consistently getting 2 LnL procs for every Explosive Trap. The longer duration and more frequent ticks of Explosive Trap, and the subsequently more frequent LnL procs, seem to put it ahead in the single target rotation over Black Arrow (despite it’s slightly lower individual dmg). [...] Also worth noting is the impact focus cost has on our rotation. Using Trap launcher/Explosive Trap is 10 focus (glyphed), vs the 35 focus for BA. [...]
Asaki commented, “The scary thing with using ES instead of BA is that if your trap “misses” a boss, you’ll notice an immediate loss of DPS.”
It’s absolutely mandatory you know exactly where the boss is going to be moved and where the trap will pop on his hitbox. From my experience it takes a few tries to get it right. I’d also advice in early stages of learning a fight to take some time placing the trap.
Vial of Shadows Proc, Part II 12/3/11
In the Hunter DPS Analyzer thread, Rivkah wrote, “I’ve modified my Vial of Shadows support to reflect 1:1 RAP scaling.”
I’m not sure if this is completely accurate as it’s possible it may be implemented slightly differently, but all the information I’ve found so far seems to indicate it works this way. This makes even the raid finder version of the trinket come out as worth a ton of damage, so I suspect the proc modeling will still need more work.
In the SimulationCraft for Hunters thread, Palioh asked, “Does SimulationCraft have the Resistance is Futile buff available for simulation? I tried adding different variations of the buff into the sim, but I can’t seem to get anything to work.”
Zimeron replied, “No, we don’t simulate mobs running away from you.”
Palioh wrote, “RiF procs on moving targets regardless of their direction or distance. Bosses are not stationary target dummies, so I see no reason why this talent is not available in the sim.”
Zimeron replied, “Open an issue on how you’d like it to be implemented, as we currently don’t simulate mobs moving either, but something could be setup to mimic that behavior. Issues – simulationcraft – World of Warcraft DPS Simulator – Google Project Hosting”
Twin Emperors Bug/Exploit Fixed 12/8/11
In the Soloing Old Instances for Fun and Profit thread, Onin wrote, “The latest patch has fixed the exploit which we used to kill Twin Emps (Vek’lor properly aggroes alongside Vek’nilash). We might want to double-check whether any of the other bugs/exploits have been fixed; Blizzard has ticked many bugs off the list in 4.3.”
A full index of all Elitist Jerks posts recapped at the Wow Hunter’s Hall is maintained in the Index of Elitist Jerks Hunter Forum Posts.
Loading ...